Jason Freeman
Competition Judge
Long Island Iced Free
Posts: 3,271
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Post by Jason Freeman on Aug 10, 2010 20:44:34 GMT -5
Say what you want TK, but ECW One Night Stand >>>>> Hardcore Justice, and it was done by WWE
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Post by worldbreaker on Aug 10, 2010 20:53:44 GMT -5
Say what you want TK, but ECW One Night Stand >>>>> Hardcore Justice, and it was done by WWE Actually it was done by Paul Heyman with a bigger bankroll with more guys who were alive and more willing to come out for the said bankroll. WWE deserves NO credit for that. And what's this crap I hear about a WCW Hall of Fame? Are you fucking kidding me? What depths will they sink?
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VorteX
Experienced Member
Stay a while...and listen.
Posts: 723
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Post by VorteX on Aug 10, 2010 21:01:38 GMT -5
I don't think ONS was better than this. The invasion angle ruined the show for me, as they focused way too much on the WWE aspect of things. As TK said though, they had Styles, The Ballroom, Heyman, and a much bigger budget with no censoring. Of course it is going to appear better.
The thing is, it lacked heart. They may have had more in-shape performers--and more living ones--however the whole PPV was tainted by gimmicks. Just look at Eddie. I'm sure he would have loved to break character, but could he? No. He was bound to his WWE feud, as was most of the rest of the PPV.
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Jason Freeman
Competition Judge
Long Island Iced Free
Posts: 3,271
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Post by Jason Freeman on Aug 10, 2010 21:54:48 GMT -5
I will again say that the best thing TNA has right now is Beer Money/MCMG.
I am in shock and disbelief at how much they have allowed them to do on the shows, but THAT is what brings viewers IMO. I mean they have wrestled each other five times now, and each time has been phenomenal. Maybe its getting a LITTLE repetitive, and a bit too free with the gimmick matches, but meh. Its fun, and that alone has made me want to watch the special Impact this Thursday, just to see the final match in their series.
Abyss vs RVD would have been good in classic TNA but for some reason they dont do fun hardcore matches anymore (which hopefully after Hardcore Justice they will change that)
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Post by worldbreaker on Aug 10, 2010 22:22:28 GMT -5
I am in shock and disbelief at how much they have allowed them to do on the shows, but THAT is what brings viewers IMO. Considering the ratings haven't jumped as such, and your argument that "wrestling brings ratings" falls short once again.
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Jason Freeman
Competition Judge
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Posts: 3,271
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Post by Jason Freeman on Aug 10, 2010 22:38:37 GMT -5
Im not sure if that's true or not, because I havent seen the recent numbers, but that's because they aren't having new viewers to watch it. The thing is TK, that it is star power that may bring people in originally but that is a one-time jump, and it is matches like Beer Money vs MCMG that will keep the fans. If they did these matches on that first Live impact where they hit their 1.8 then they may still at least be at a 1.5
As it is now, for all you like about Hogan, and all those old guys, TNA still has the same ratings now that they had in 2006. Except now they have Hogan, Bischoff, Flair, etc. Obviously those guys didnt help much either. The only thing differnet is they are paying much more money now for their contracts.
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Post by Dan White on Aug 10, 2010 22:42:01 GMT -5
TNA THE WHOLE F'N SHOW ALL PPV MATCHES ON FREE TV DESPITE NO MATCH LASTING 5 MINUTES
xmfd tna
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Jason Freeman
Competition Judge
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Post by Jason Freeman on Aug 10, 2010 22:48:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I read some spoilers, didnt go into much detail but it seemed most matches were horrible. But both the world title and tag title matches were around 15-20 minutes. And they seemed to think tag title match was awesome, Im excited.
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VorteX
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Post by VorteX on Aug 11, 2010 0:01:24 GMT -5
I think another way to phrase what TK is getting at is that wrestling without heart is useless. You can put two of the greatest athletes in the world in the ring together and it doesn't mean much if they just go at it without purpose.
For instance, look at AJ vs. Angle and then Dreamer vs. Raven. The first instance has two great wrestlers, and they put on a few great matches. Those matches are largely forgettable as they took place just to make TNA money and nothing more. The matches took place on 'star power' alone, and that was the major problem.
Now look at the second case. Two brawlers who can't flip through the air or shoot, yet they had a far more meaningful feud and matches. Why? They didn't do it for the money, they did it for the fans. After you have a great base (one that has heart) you can start adding on things, such as both Dreamer and Raven can take a hell of a lot of punishment and Raven has some of the best mic work and ring psychology of any wrestler to step foot in the ring.
That's the major problem with wrestling today. You have the WWE which churns out 'superstars' for no other reason than to make Vince money. People like Cena and Orton are nowhere near what legends like Shawn and Taker are (just to stick with WWE for the moment), as the latter two have gimmicks that make sense and got over with all fans, not just screaming 12 year olds.
Then you have TNA, which for some reason insists on being WWE 2.0 instead of doing something more meaningful. It's the reason I want to see them take an ECW path (not BE ECW but emulate it), as in bring heart back to wrestling. They have the players, just look at what they did with HJ. In all honesty, the tag match got me a little emotional just seeing the fan involvement...like it or not a bunch of people waving plastic heads around for Al Snow IS what wrestling should be about. The guy takes trash can shots for a living, but has more respect from me than anyone in the WWE (wrestlers that is) and most people from TNA simply because he 'gets it' and isn't out there for the bankroll.
The long and short of it is that wrestling has become vapid, shallow, and stupid. The same ideas from the 90's have been pillaged, burnt, and raped so many times now it's sickening.
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Taylor
Senatorial Stable
Posts: 255
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Post by Taylor on Aug 11, 2010 8:17:43 GMT -5
Stfu Orton is awesome >.>
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Post by Dan White on Aug 11, 2010 12:49:37 GMT -5
Orton is ace.
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TWMoney
Senatorial Stable
Posts: 457
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Post by TWMoney on Aug 11, 2010 14:08:36 GMT -5
just wanted to say that i've heard this argument about wrestling "recycling ideas from the 90's" and that they should come up with new stuff. Do people not look around the world outside of wrestling? so for 2000's should be know as the age of recycling! Movies, books, tv shows, music, fashion, everything is recycling ideas from the 90's. Is it good? not really....Is it bad? not really. It just is. The 90's apperantly had something special that is making people want to relive them when we are just barely out of them. Eventually wrestling, and everything else, will move on with new ideas and new trends but sometimes you just gotta roll with what is instead of bashing it for what it could be.
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Post by worldbreaker on Aug 11, 2010 16:53:48 GMT -5
Im not sure if that's true or not, because I havent seen the recent numbers, but that's because they aren't having new viewers to watch it. The thing is TK, that it is star power that may bring people in originally but that is a one-time jump, and it is matches like Beer Money vs MCMG that will keep the fans. If they did these matches on that first Live impact where they hit their 1.8 then they may still at least be at a 1.5. I underlined the most important part in your post. You are right, they aren't having new viewers watch it because the public has SWAYED AWAY FROM PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING. Wrestling is shrinking in viewership every year because the youth of today is so inundated with reality programing that they simply cannot tolerate scripted fantasy. Both TNA and WWE try so hard to be real that they fail to realize that people are just going to go with UFC if they want real. That is why they desperately need to return back to a comic book style approach in character development. E-Tards like to talk shit and divide the already dwindling wrestling fanbase but what they don't like to hear is that the WWE is also not doing the same business as it was years ago and has steadily lost viewers and fans. Saying the WWE is number one is like clapping for someone who just won a medal at the Special Olympics. Of course they are going to draw a bigger audience - any moron with a multi-million dollar budget and global marketing SHOULD have the most watched wrestling program on TV. Sensationalism sells and TNA unfortunately does not have these things. They are the little company that could and deserve many, many props for even SURVIVING in the "wrestling isn't cool" climate and economy. Why is it that you say that matches like Beer Money Vs. MCMG will "bring in fans?" TNA used the "this is wrestling" approach way before Hogan/Bischoff stepped in and f ailed to bring in larger ratings even though their wrestling product was far better than the WWE's. This has been tried, Freeman. Tried and failed. Right now they are doing a smart business move and that is trying to get old fans back into wrestling. Somewhere out there, there are 6-8 MILLION people who watched wrestling just on Nielson boxes that vanished the night professional wrestling died. It is stupid, asinine and just moronic to bash TNA for trying to reclaim this audience because there are NO new fans. But that is what smarks do, because each one thinks that they know how to run a company, keep it afloat and that pro wrestling has an endless resource of fans. Pathetic.
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Taylor
Senatorial Stable
Posts: 255
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Post by Taylor on Aug 11, 2010 18:38:01 GMT -5
Saying there is no potential for new fans is retarded. If TNA did something different rather than copying other companies then maybe they'd bring new fans in. Everything they've done lately is copying someone. If they were actually their own brand and developed definitive usps then maybe they'd got more fans. It is true they have had a usp now and then but they ALWAYS fuck it up somehow.
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Jason Freeman
Competition Judge
Long Island Iced Free
Posts: 3,271
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Post by Jason Freeman on Aug 11, 2010 19:14:43 GMT -5
Ok TK, say what you want, but where are the numbers then? Why are they still getting the same ratings as 2006 where they DIDNT have all of these guys? Wouldnt the ratings increase? Oh wait...they did! They got a 1.8 from these fans who wanted to see Hulk Hogan. You know what happened next? The rest of the show sucked and people gave up and now it's back at 1.1
Yes, Beer Money vs MCMG is not going to bring in fans, because who is going to be seeing it? The only people watching it are those that already watch TNA. That isnt going to BRING fans. That is going to KEEP fans.
What TNA needed to do was use star power to bring fans (They did that) but what they forgot was to present a good product to keep them. If they had opened that first Hogan Impact with a match like that, it would have probably won them over some fans, but the product wasnt strong enough. Hulk Hogan is great and all, but if people tune in just to see Hogan and the wrestling and everything else are bad, they have no reason to keep watching. You can say all you want, that the percentage of people that want to tune in weekly to watch good wrestling is low, but I would say that ratings show that the percentage of people that want to tune in weekly to watch for nostalgia is just as small. So if I am in a minority, so are you.
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