VorteX
Experienced Member
Stay a while...and listen.
Posts: 723
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Post by VorteX on Dec 13, 2009 2:15:16 GMT -5
Issue One: Reboot-Maintain Status Quo-Quit
Why? I HATED Smackdown vs. Raw and this is exactly what this sounds like. It didn't work with Fallout and it isn't going to here. It's kind of ridiculous I have to run two characters in one fed just to work with someone. I don't have much time to write for one now, much less two.
Issue Two: Rank
Keep the three belts, get rid of the ranks (they detract from the belt prestige as I've mentioned before), and let the calcs do the rest of the talking. If your champions are active, they won't get killed...and some new guy should never be able to take a championship without at least some effort anyway because of the calcs. Ranks do nothing but split the roster and we don't need to split the roster right now.
Issue Three: Titles
No title merges. If anything the International Title is useless in name as we don't defend it Internationally, however that's become a 'real' fed standard somehow so we should keep it.
Issue Four: NPC’s
Make NPC's easier to find, and leave what we have. There is really no reason at all to change this...it's not as if you can have 'too many' of them.
Issue Five: Show Times and Dates
Didn't we have a 8 page debate about this? Canceling a show after the PPV will kill pacing, and there were other good reasons for it being Wednesday...so we should leave it at Wednesday. If AK needs a break from posting...get a rotation of people to do it as we had with the two shows.
Issue Six: Championship Committee
Not sure what this is about, as the booking committee did the mid-month defenses if the champion either wasn't getting anyone to step up or plain wanted to sit on their title. Probably won't serve too much of a purpose (unless I'm missing something), so I say don't bother.
After this topic I am a little down about the future of ACW. Rebooting it is a bad idea (besides presentation as I've stated before we need to get the hell away from proboards), however drastic changes like this will do little. Also to be quite honest, SLA reminded me of a direct ACW ripoff with a few active members (because it was new and some of them were either writing for two feds or jumped ship), so I really wouldn't compare that to ACW. In fact, I wish it would stop being mentioned altogether as it does nothing but make the older members want to stop looking at the boards (except Yoko, but Yoko is in a different category with just about everything).
I mean in all honesty I feel that Senator and AK are the only 'original' part of ACW left (sorry to those who have been here just as long, but it is only my opinion). After Latino left, it seems that something changed, and now way too much is changing and I honestly have no idea how long this can be sustained for.
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Post by Bre Dubs on Dec 13, 2009 2:18:45 GMT -5
i get what you're trying to do with the fed wide story, I'm just not sure how successful it's going to be.
and i get that maybe you don't want to use the old NPC's, it's not like I created them, i'm sure you use them in much the same way I did. I'm just saying, get ACW back into shape first, then start re-making NPCs and the like.
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Post by Kim Jong CP on Dec 13, 2009 2:43:29 GMT -5
Issue One: Reboot-Maintain Status Quo-Quit Why? I HATED Smackdown vs. Raw and this is exactly what this sounds like. It didn't work with Fallout and it isn't going to here. It's kind of ridiculous I have to run two characters in one fed just to work with someone. I don't have much time to write for one now, much less two. Issue Two: Rank Keep the three belts, get rid of the ranks (they detract from the belt prestige as I've mentioned before), and let the calcs do the rest of the talking. If your champions are active, they won't get killed...and some new guy should never be able to take a championship without at least some effort anyway because of the calcs. Ranks do nothing but split the roster and we don't need to split the roster right now. Issue Three: Titles No title merges. If anything the International Title is useless in name as we don't defend it Internationally, however that's become a 'real' fed standard somehow so we should keep it. Issue Four: NPC’s Proposition: To what extent should we keep the present NPC corpse. Should we make brand new ones entirely, keep some and make others, or maintain status quo. If anything we get rid of the tag titles for now. Issue Five: Show Times and Dates Didn't we have a 8 page debate about this? Canceling a show after the PPV will kill pacing, and there were other good reasons for it being Wednesday...so we should leave it at Wednesday. If AK needs a break from posting...get a rotation of people to do it as we had with the two shows. Issue Six: Championship Committee Not sure what this is about, as the booking committee did the mid-month defenses if the champion either wasn't getting anyone to step up or plain wanted to sit on their title. Probably won't serve too much of a purpose (unless I'm missing something), so I say don't bother. After this topic I am a little down about the future of ACW. Rebooting it is a bad idea (besides presentation as I've stated before we need to get the hell away from proboards), however drastic changes like this will do little. Also to be quite honest, SLA reminded me of a direct ACW ripoff with a few active members (because it was new and some of them were either writing for two feds or jumped ship), so I really wouldn't compare that to ACW. In fact, I wish it would stop being mentioned altogether as it does nothing but make the older members want to stop looking at the boards (except Yoko, but Yoko is in a different category with just about everything). I mean in all honesty I feel that Senator and AK are the only 'original' part of ACW left (sorry to those who have been here just as long, but it is only my opinion). After Latino left, it seems that something changed, and now way too much is changing and I honestly have no idea how long this can be sustained for. Summay: Maintain Status Quo. Watch fed die. Seriously, the only reason you don't like the SLA idea is because it's TK's and that much is obvious from your first post which you stated that you had to handle two characters for the fed. NOWHERE was it stated you had too, just that if you want to it'd be fine, relaxing the rules on multiple characters. As far as three belts and get rid of the ranks, to me that makes no sense, there needs to be some form of logical progression from one step to the next which is what the ranks are there for, if we drop it too two, with two belts and remove it from calc's it's still progression that's needed. As far as the time change, if I remember that was Zero and Rep railroading, no one really supported the idea, more that was what we were forced to take, now I could go back and look but it's nearing one AM. As far as the last two, I've been down on Freeman but at least he's trying, while Kenny has been doom and gloom at least he's been offering solutions to help things and honestly I can say VorteX that you're a fairly fair representation of why we're where we are, not just you but it's happened over a long period of time. Change is a bad thing, no need to even try when it's not working, the past is more important than the future. If that's the case, we will rot and die and I will say heavens to good riddens. There's plenty of talent here and judging based on what you've said your skills are, there's plenty you could do to help change ACW...what's not an option though is the status quo, because I personally guarantee this fed does not last past January if that's the case, if we maintain the status quo, I'm gone, Kenny's gone and I'm sure a few others because right now, there's no motivation for people to return or right...the system we have in place worked when you were first here, but not now. Would it work if every person I listed was active, yes, but there's a reason those people aren't and those are the issues we're trying to address. It's obvious what we have didn't keep them 'round, so why would the same thing bring them back?
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Post by El Shadowo on Dec 13, 2009 5:25:17 GMT -5
Issue One: Reboot - Maintain Status Quo - Quit
Ok, I've been thinking on this one all night since I first heard the idea. I get whats being done here. As ACW stands, something needs to change cause if it doesn't, ACW will die, unfortunatly. I hate saying that, but the truth is there's very little different between ACW now and what I understand it was a few years ago, other than a loss of members. Everything needs to evolve. Everything needs to change to keep fresh, cause if it doesn't, then people get bored and unmotivated.
Right, the idea of two shows. First off, I wanted to address something Freeman said. The idea that this idea is being pushed cause SLA and GWF people want those brands/companies to return. I can't speak for TK, but thats not why I threw GWF's name into the mix. I went in to the chat briefly last night and the idea was being thrown around about a second show. I suggested GWF since there is a history there. There's three years of established stories, there's a World Heavyweight belt ready to go, and potentially, we could lure a good few of the old people in on the notion that GWF was being relaunched, albeit in a new form. I felt that if a second show was going to happen, GWF is one thats already established with NPCs, titles and so forth. Likewise, advertising "ACW vs GWF" might lure in more members, specifically on Gamefaqs, since both names are somewhat recognisable. Since SLA wasn't around that long, no offence TK, it might not have the same name value.
Of course then, there are cons. As I said, GWF comes with a history. Unfrotunatly, during the dying days of GWF, I think it got something of a bad rep (lol, pun <_<) and I don't know would that turn people off. Also, as has been raised, there is a more obvious issue and that is spliting the roster in two. CP, I understand where your figures of 30 people are coming from, but being realistic, we'd need to maintain at least two thirds of that number to keep the two shows idea viable. We would also need to come to some sort of arrangement whereby match writers/feedback guys would agree to not be show specific in their writing; it would be horrible if one show got all the match writers and, out of a sense of loyalty to their show, they only really wrote for their own. Likewise, I worry its only a short term fix. Will we keep everyone who is saying they'd write? Is this only a superficial fix?
ALso then, how would the people be divided? I can't email ex-GWF guys, try and get them invovled in the reboot and then tell them they can't be on the GWF show <_< Likewise, when new people joined, how would they be split? Would they get the choice which show to join, creating free agents. Pro here is that new people would definitly feel welcomed if two shows were competing for them. Con is that people would probably want to go on the percieved stronger show meaning one show gets everyone and the other is left to die. How do we maintain fairness and balance at the same time?
Of course, long term then, perhaps we could even approach smaller efeds and ask them to join the federation that would effectivly be created. If two shows worked, a smaller fed could be asked to join to create a third show, bringing in a load of new members with it in the process. This would obv. be a LONG term aim and one which would be fluid in how we went about it, but its just a thought.
So I'm not quite sure if I'm for or against this idea fully yet. I can see the pros and cons.
As far as the reboot, I think it's the least of what we should try. I don't think the name "ACW" should be dropped. Its a recognisable name and should definitly remain as the name of the show. Titles don't need to lose history. Other stories can be thought up of that serve the purpose of vacating the titles and allowing us to reboot, while retaining the rich history of ACW.
In fact, this idea could easily then lead in to the seperate shows. Work on the reboot and then, further down the line, someone gets pissed and decides to create their own show to fight ACW.
One thing that was said that I agree with is the idea that these wouldn't be two seperate brands or shouldn't be portrayed in Kayfabe as such. More, they would be, in story, two seperate companies which run under the ACW banner and on the same site. "Trades" would still happen, but could be more easily explained as inter-company agreements, loans, or contract expirations which have led to them jumping ship. This, to me, shouldn't be considered as a "WWE vs Alliance" style story. More a genuine "WWF vs WCW" idea.
(Thats all I've got time to post now on my laptop. Will update with my thoughts on everything else soon...)
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Post by El Shadowo on Dec 13, 2009 8:03:22 GMT -5
Issue Two & Three: Ranks & Titles
To me, these two issues are actually one. As I said, I’d be in favour of dropping the ranks altogether, but as a compromise, I think the idea of just having the two works as well. I’d say keep the ET title since I’ve always viewed that as the first title people should be gunning for, while the IN title was more of a bridge between the lower and higher titles. Not much more to say on that issue.
Issue Four: NPCs
To be honest, I don’t think this should be a major concern at the moment. Compared to the first three issues raised, this seems obsolete to me. Surely we should be worrying about getting the other things sorted first. Then, I reckon this issue will fall into place once we’ve agreed what other actions we’re taking.
Issue Five: Show times
I’d be all for a Monday change, since you’d still retain the weekend to do most of your work. Also, someone proposed that PPVs be on a Sunday and then we’d just skip the next Monday show to give us time. Makes the most sense to me from getting plenty of time to write. Weekday PPVs, to me, are a bad idea since people will be busy most of the weekday its on and before and thus won’t have time to do as much writing. Putting it on a Sunday gives people all day Saturday and Sunday to do it.
As for the show time, am I right saying that some people want to move it back to a later American time? That would be fine with me and I can understand why some would rather it. While it would mean that it would be the next morning till I read over the shows due to the fact it would mean shows would be posted at midnight here, I can understand the benifits.
Also, I’d be more than willing to offer my services in terms of show posting if necessary.
Issue Six: Championship Committee
I’ve already given my views on this, but I’ll say it again. I just think its over killing a situation that could be far more simpler. I don’t know if it would add a whole lot more work on the mods but I just think it would be far easier if a topic was made once or twice a months where the mods ok’d peoples decisions in terms of challengers. We don’t need a separate group to deal with that. Then for midmonth, its up to the mods, the champs and the booking committee to come up with who gets the shot. I just don’t see why we’d need to create a whole new group just to deal with what should be a two day/10 mins a month job....
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Post by Latino on Dec 13, 2009 11:38:16 GMT -5
Honestly I don't think ranks should be dropped. For one it does give people a sense of improvement when they actually go up a rank and it gives them a new area/pool of people to fight with. If we eliminate the ranks and just have two divisions then it becomes a free for all that becomes dry and boring. You get no real direction.
I'm not really a fan of a reboot and it has nothing to do with ACW's history. If we don't solve the problem that is inherit in this fed and it's members then a reboot will be a band-aid not the antibiotic.
Finally, while presentation is good and all if we have no true community then presentation will mean nothing. Forget all the pizazz and just worry about being happy working together.
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Post by Dan White on Dec 13, 2009 11:52:00 GMT -5
I agree with Latino. I'm not a fan of this whole "let's destroy the arena in-storyline and start over" motive. I just think that being able to make the fed a friendlier place will help everyone involved. We could make some minor changes to the fed, but I really do not believe a complete rebranding of the fed is going to benefit in the long run.
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Post by worldbreaker on Dec 13, 2009 12:22:45 GMT -5
And the long time members don't want to change a thing.
Huge surprise. >.>
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Post by Latino on Dec 13, 2009 12:49:26 GMT -5
I'm all for change but I'd rather you fix the problems first before you try to make drastic changes that will most likely not work without that community.
To be honest if you're not willing to do that then why are you even here?
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Post by worldbreaker on Dec 13, 2009 12:56:31 GMT -5
I'm all for change but I'd rather you fix the problems first before you try to make drastic changes that will most likely not work without that community. To be honest if you're not willing to do that then why are you even here? Because you can't change the problems until you want to make people want to read. You have to bring in enthusiasm and to do that you need a fun storyline that will increase readership and competitiveness. We need a fresh new design and a skin that reflects that we are a serious e-fed. Again I ask our members to look around, other feds pop you in the face when you arrive with their general look. Ours, not so much. You could help us with that, Latino. But you haven't. Instead, I see a link in the shout box to your page. Where is ours? I guess I am frusterated, because stuff like this has happened over and over and yet, nothing ever changes. It's always all talk, no leadership.
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Post by Dan White on Dec 13, 2009 13:09:22 GMT -5
Well what I don't want to see is the soul of ACW stripped out. I think what people arn't liking is that we are the same old same old. But we can sort things out without having to resort to a complete rebranding, or whatever. Have it so we tour all the time, rather than always at the ACW Arena. Have so the World title carries the current lineage, just emphasise that this is a new time. Things like that. To start again completely over with a new name/new titles/new NPCs is a bit pointless, I mean if you wanted to do that you could just join a new fed.
The notion that we could be effectively wiping the ACW slate clean doesn't appeal to me. I'm all for change, but not wholesale changes. All we need to do is fix a few minor issues. I mean for what it's worth, I don't even think ACW is even the problem. It's the community side that is the problem.
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Post by worldbreaker on Dec 13, 2009 13:12:01 GMT -5
The more and more I think about it, the more and more it just tells me we are just spinning our wheels here.
What some people fail to realize is that ACW is not working when you only have a handful of people submit promos. When the show is less than one page, that is not working. That’s not an e-fed, that is a handful of guys trying to be an e-fed. The main problem is that nobody cares about what is going on. I remember when I joined, the championship matches were BIG deals. Everyone waited to see who would walk out of the PPV a victor after following along with the saga between the two participants in the promos. Oh sure, nobody probably read them all but people talked about it enough and enough read them for people to know the general gist of the feud.
Those days are gone.
They don’t exist anymore. Instead, we have guys fighting where the only two that truly know what is going on are the two scripting it. People feel like it is a chore to write instead of being fun. Asking people to hold hands and do feedback is not going to solve anything until you actually want to make them do it. How do you do that? Create an exciting storyline. You change the backdrop. You change the presentation.
Over the span of several years, ACW has PROVED it can’t draw new people.
One, two, three or even four is not “drawing” new talent. Other feds can draw that many in months. You guys NEED to understand, ACW is NOT drawing new people because people DO NOT WANT TO PLAY HERE. Your stance is to shrug your shoulders and say “fuck them” as it’s always been.
Well guess what? That attitude has now bit you on the ass.
You either change up or it is over. It really is that simple.
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VorteX
Experienced Member
Stay a while...and listen.
Posts: 723
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Post by VorteX on Dec 13, 2009 13:21:54 GMT -5
Summay: Maintain Status Quo. Watch fed die. Seriously, the only reason you don't like the SLA idea is because it's TK's and that much is obvious from your first post which you stated that you had to handle two characters for the fed. NOWHERE was it stated you had too, just that if you want to it'd be fine, relaxing the rules on multiple characters. As far as three belts and get rid of the ranks, to me that makes no sense, there needs to be some form of logical progression from one step to the next which is what the ranks are there for, if we drop it too two, with two belts and remove it from calc's it's still progression that's needed. As far as the time change, if I remember that was Zero and Rep railroading, no one really supported the idea, more that was what we were forced to take, now I could go back and look but it's nearing one AM. First of all, I dislike SLA because it basically accomplished only one thing and that was taking people out of ACW. That much is clear from the 'goodbye letter' that was posted shortly after the 'title incident'. Anyway, with that idea you would basically have to run two characters to work with anyone you wanted, otherwise the split would mean nothing. Secondly, change will mean nothing if we don't fix this community. Presentation means absolutely nothing if all of our potential new talent sees topics such as these pop up constantly.
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Post by Bre Dubs on Dec 13, 2009 13:23:07 GMT -5
TK, If you have a broken leg, the color of the cast doesn't matter, because your leg is still broken. You can call the fed whatever you like, change the look, but THAT is not what is going to get people r/ping.
Just because they're suggesting that a re-branding isn't going to do much good doesn't mean they don't see the need for change, notice their are at least 4 other issues that are more important to this fed. I think the number of belts, rankings, and show times are the things that you guys should focus on first. Structure first, aesthetics second.
Plus, if you don't like it, then just disregard what they say instead of making snarky comments(or at least say something constructive)
To Latino: I think multiple ranks only work if you have enough people to fill them out, which this fed does not. There won't be chaos in having just two divisions because there aren't so many people for that to be true. If the fed thrives and gets big again it can be expanded back if thats what people want.
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Post by Latino on Dec 13, 2009 13:25:49 GMT -5
Bre, definitely the multiple ranks is my personal opinion and just the old school way of doing it. Again, I'm just worried if people don't feel the need to work to attain a higher goal but if the ranks are thin then yea you are a right about that. All I care about if people write and have fun.
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