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Post by Thunderkiss on Jun 15, 2011 21:26:40 GMT -5
So why should I take your word over the word of guys like Flair and Hogan? Two wrestling legends right? And the two still treat the Hall of Fame rings like a mark of who's who in wrestling, and guess what, NEITHER is with the WWE right now. They are in fact in TNA, which puts down WWE at all points that they can, and yet even they make a point of bringing up the hall of fame. There was the storyline with Hogan passing down his ring to Abyss, and I believe another thing with Flair talking to Bobby Roode and saying something like "You dont have one of these!" talking about his Hall of Fame ring. First, TNA putting WWE down at "all points that they can" is hyperbole. Yes, they have taken their shots, but time after damn time I have proven here that WWE has done the same in the past (This is a relatively normal practice that has been executed by the AWA, NWA, WCW, TNA and WWF) and in fact, TNA has really pulled back on this in the last few years. Second, yes, both Hogan and Flair have mentioned their involvement in the HOF on TNA television so that shows that it is relevant enough to make it a storyline - at least to someone. However, you cannot weigh the importance of the WWE HOF on this. In fact, you bringing this up proves my point about how relevant it is. How? Well, I see the WWE using their supposed important HOF as a storyline gimmick most of the time so I guess TNA attempted to follow suit. IMO & FYI, it was a horrible storyline and I did not approve. TNA can't even stop mentioning it for one episode. Come on, Freeman. For someone who was just praising TNA on the GameFAQ ROH board you are sure utterly exaggerating. I have been watching a lot and I cannot remember the last time WWE was mentioned. Everything ECW, everything WCW, it all belongs to WWE now. They can do with it what they want. Like release a best of Monday Night Nitro DVD. They own it. And unless a miracle happens, TNA will go the same route. In Japan, in Mexico, things are different. In America, WWE is pro wrestling. And WWE is fine now, not as good as it used to be maybe but a heck of a lot better than it was in 2005-2007. TK you hate John Cena but he's basically Hulk hogan. A superface all the kids love and look up to and buy all the merchandise, etc. Just like you have nostalgia for Hulk Hogan kids of today will grow up with nostalgia for John Cena. And in any case, Cena is the only wrestler in the WWE that gets passion wherever he goes. You can say "BUT HALF THE TIME HE GETS BOOED!" maybe...but lets say its Cena vs Miz...are you going to hear "LETS GO CENA! LETS GO MIZ!" no...you're going to hear "LETS GO CENA! CENA SUCKS!" It's all about John Cena. I like John Cena, or I hate John Cena, its all directed at him, and nothing for his opponent. Its CENA who gets a reaction whereEVER he goes, the crowd is NEVER dead for him and there is NOBODY else in the WWE that you could say that about. I personally dont like Cena but there is no reason to blame him for anything. Also the undercard in WWE is a lot stronger than it used to be and payperviews have insanely higher average match quality than your typical shows from years back. Freeman, how does any of that rant have anything to do with the original conversation? I mean, you just basically defended John Cena even though I said nothing about him and went on to inform me that Vince McMahon owns ECW and WCW. If you are looking for my insight on your perhaps trolling comments, fine, I will play along. First, John Cena is not Hulk Hogan. You see, Hogan did have his fair share of detractors, but never, ever could you even hear his boos. Anti-Cena fans sometimes go over the kids and women yelling on top of their lungs. Oh yes, both were faces, their charisma overshadows their in ring skill, won lots of matches and were popular with the kids - but the similarities end there. At the hight of Hogan's fame, he was a house hold name. Cena is not. How can I prove this? Cena hasn't been on the cover of sports illustrated, hasn't guest hosted SNL, hasn't had his own cartoon, hasn't had his own toy line. Hogan's fans were diverse in nature which made him more accepted by everyone. Most of Cena's marks are suburban wiggers which makes him more decisive. So no, Cena is not Hulk Hogan. I know I am known as being a Hulk Hogan mark and I am not going to feel ashamed or apologetic about it. I see a lot of stupid shit written about him from kids who weren't even alive during many of his more famous moments. I will speak up with my opinions about him when needed, as I did here. That said, I am not a mark for the stuff he does in his personal life. I know he has done wrong, as we all have, and I will also point out times I do not agree with him. Such as his recent defending of that waste of space Saggs and his current involvement in TNA. I know this may come as a shock, but I can really say that Hulk Hogan has not added one thing to TNA. He has done a real piss poor job being a heel, being a face ... just doing anything. The man has the capability to do stuff to make people pay attention but I think he just doesn't care. As far as Vince owning anything and doing what he pleases with it - that's fine with me. He cannot take away my memories. You see, I remember a time when wrestling thrived and you had so many options. It was great. Those who never got a chance to experience this cannot realize how great of a time it was to be involved as a fan of wrestling and therefore project stupid things out of their fingers a lot, such as reveling in the fact that Vince is American wrestling and there is no Coke to his Pepsi. To his credit, I also remember a time when he cared for the business and promoted something unique. Those were good times, before it became a TV sitcom filled with supermodels and the backstage became their Hollywood.
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Jason Freeman
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Posts: 3,271
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Post by Jason Freeman on Jun 16, 2011 3:44:13 GMT -5
Well my comments about TNA constantly mentioning WWE wasnt really meant to judge them as right or wrong but WAS meant to show that mostly A. Though they take shots at WWE often it STILL didnt stop them from bringing up the validity of the hall of fame, which you would think they would, yet obviously it means something to Hogan and Flair (And let's be honest here, Im sure both have the creative control to bring this up on their own.) and B. The WWE is the king of American wrestling. And yes I did compliment TNA on the GameFAQ ROH board (lol) because I think that people have been jumping down their throat when they HAVE been making some good changes IMO. Do I think its where I want them to be yet? No...not exactly, but I will give props that the last month of television was definitely a step in the right direction. The X-division has been featured more prominently and the wrestling HAS gotten better even if there is room for more improvement. It annoyed me that people were still blasting TNA for NOT making changes when it seemed they were trying. And also Bully Ray is surprisingly pretty awesome, though that's kind of unrelated. I think TNA needs to keep stepping up and to me it's still not at the level it was, but I will be happy with them taking steps in the right direction as long as they keep doing so.
My comments about Cena were because you said WWE is a joke now, and people eat it up, etc, etc. A lot of times when people say stuff like that it's about Cena, and how they hate Cena as the posterboy, etc, etc. If you didnt think about Cena in any way when saying it then nevermind my comments. And true Hogan was more popular both in a universal sense and in a household name sense, but A. Wrestling was more popular then, and B. The internet wasnt. The internet and "Smartening" up of wrestling fans and sort of death of kayfabe sort of took away from the ability for a guy like John Cena to be universally loved by everyone.
And Im not even saying its good or bad Vince is in charge, my point however was that he WAS, and maybe WWE wasnt wrestling back then, but it is NOW. TNA had a chance but they blew it, and while they are fixing their show up now, slowly, it's kind of too late. They had a bit of momentum when Hogan showed up and did nothing with it. I really dont see TNA ever growing. They havent in years. Every week it's somewhere between 1.0-1.2, and that's been like that EVER SINCE its been on Spike. Angle, Sting, Hogan, Flair, Hardy, RVD, etc....nobody is helping the TNA ratings and if none of those guys would, the only people who could make a difference are guys like Rock, Austin, Cena, who TNA will obviously never get. I dont know what they can possibly do to grow from this point on, but I think taking Hogan and Bischoff OFF TV would be a good thing.
Im not going to get into the whole Hogan mark thing, as I get it. Im sure Ill be the same way ten years from now for guys like Edge or someone. But as you said Hogan just has not been good for TNA. can he help backstage? I dunno...but he's not working on screen and he's kind of taking away from his specialness. Bischoff was a GREAT on-screen GM of Raw in 2002-2005, didnt watch WCW obviously, so I dont know what he was like then, but if you compare the Bischoff on Raw to this Bischoff the difference is immense. He seems like he just doesnt care now, and when he shoots for realism it just comes off as being bored or unenthusiastic, and he's on the show way too much. There's no real spark to him and that's down to everything to his music even.
But again, I DID make a topic complimenting TNA, and I stand by what I said there, but I really think Bischoff and Hogan need to get off the show.
That kind of got off track lol, but its interesting to discuss TNA and stuff. On the TNA note, while I thought it was extremely stupid at first and bad, the Winter storyline has become pretty awesome and adding a great spark to the Knockouts division. Her music is amazing and she's so good she makes the storyline seem creepy and great. And as I said earlier I am having my mind blown at how much Bully Ray is impressing me considering how terrible I thought his singles push was going to be.
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Post by Reprobate on Jun 16, 2011 12:50:31 GMT -5
And while this year's Wrestlemania 27 was far from amazing, since the brand split, the WWE has had some very strong Manias like 20, 23, 26, and the best one ever IMO in Wrestlemania 19 (A long way back yet but post-attitude-era, where most people seem to put the decline at.) I just cannot argue with someone who thinks that 2003 is "a long way back." The WWE HOF is a work. Anyone who truly cares about it is a mark. Hogan has shown that he's a mark for himself already, so I don't see why you're assuming he wouldn't be marking out over having a ring. The NY HOF is far more legitimate because it's not used as a work to promote a show. It's a legitimate museum and their inductions are a shoot. It's a non-wrestling thing that was organized to preserve a great hobby/lifestyle. It's not about a payday, or a one night comeback, or a way to get back in Vince's pocket for an action figure/video game contract.
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Jason Freeman
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Posts: 3,271
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Post by Jason Freeman on Jun 16, 2011 12:54:33 GMT -5
Er...I cant argue someone that thinks 2003 ISNT a long way back? It was 8 years ago...what do you consider a long way back? That's over one third of your lifetime Rep....Im in my second year of college now, and in 2003 I was in elementary school....
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Post by Reprobate on Jun 16, 2011 13:32:47 GMT -5
Er...I cant argue someone that thinks 2003 ISNT a long way back? It was 8 years ago...what do you consider a long way back? That's over one third of your lifetime Rep....Im in my second year of college now, and in 2003 I was in elementary school.... In terms of wrestling, a decade is pretty fucking recent. It disgusts me that someone can look at 2003 and call that "back in the day."
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Jason Freeman
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Posts: 3,271
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Post by Jason Freeman on Jun 16, 2011 14:09:40 GMT -5
In terms of wrestling, a decade isnt recent at all......how long has wrestling been big for on a global scale...30 years? So its like 1/3 of wrestling's total mainstream lifespan....
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Post by Reprobate on Jun 16, 2011 17:53:14 GMT -5
In terms of wrestling, a decade isnt recent at all......how long has wrestling been big for on a global scale...30 years? So its like 1/3 of wrestling's total mainstream lifespan.... Tell me you're kidding...
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Jason Freeman
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Posts: 3,271
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Post by Jason Freeman on Jun 16, 2011 22:40:27 GMT -5
I dont care what you say Rep, a decade is a long time no matter what you're talking about...I dont know how anybody can claim that a decade isnt a long time unless they're 100 years old
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jun 16, 2011 22:46:39 GMT -5
Freeman, you are nuts. A decade is nothing.
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Jason Freeman
Competition Judge
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Post by Jason Freeman on Jun 16, 2011 23:03:28 GMT -5
Says the person who has only lived three so far? How is that NOTHING? You have a weird definition of nothing.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jun 17, 2011 13:19:54 GMT -5
Says the person who has only lived three so far? How is that NOTHING? You have a weird definition of nothing. I have often been told by a wise man that life goes fast, so make the most out of it, enjoy it. The older I get I find that this is cold, hard truth. Yes, I have been alive for three, but to me, I feel like my childhood was yesterday. Time flies and putting it in proper perspective, 10 years is a blink of an eye.
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Post by Reprobate on Jun 17, 2011 16:44:33 GMT -5
I dont care what you say Rep, a decade is a long time no matter what you're talking about...I dont know how anybody can claim that a decade isnt a long time unless they're 100 years old It might be long to you because you haven't even been watching wrestling for an entire one yet. But that's not the issue... the issue is you're clueless about anything that happened before that period. I wasn't alive in the 80's but I can appreciate that period of wrestling history.
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Jason Freeman
Competition Judge
Long Island Iced Free
Posts: 3,271
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Post by Jason Freeman on Jun 19, 2011 1:28:52 GMT -5
Well is it not true that wrestling has become popular on a global scale mostly starting from the 1980s? If that is the case 10 years would be 1/3 of the total time wrestling has been in the global mainstream.....so I dont know how you can consider that in any way a short amount of time. Even if pro wrestling has been insanely popular for 100 years, 10 years is still a long time in wrestling history. Its ridiculous to say otherwise. Humans get at most 10 decades to live their lives and its hard to call a decade anything but a long time, considering you'll only live through ten of them.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jun 21, 2011 21:47:10 GMT -5
Well is it not true that wrestling has become popular on a global scale mostly starting from the 1980s? If that is the case 10 years would be 1/3 of the total time wrestling has been in the global mainstream.....so I dont know how you can consider that in any way a short amount of time. Even if pro wrestling has been insanely popular for 100 years, 10 years is still a long time in wrestling history. Its ridiculous to say otherwise. Humans get at most 10 decades to live their lives and its hard to call a decade anything but a long time, considering you'll only live through ten of them.
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Post by Dan White on Jun 22, 2011 13:28:55 GMT -5
by the time you get to my age the week just seems to go "monday, tuesday, sunday; monday, tuesday, sunday; monday, tuesday, sunday; monday, tuesday, sunday;"
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