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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 11:53:28 GMT -5
Post by rosslambert on May 3, 2009 11:53:28 GMT -5
Why should he be punished that harshly though when people here have gotten away with far worse? Compared to what people like Starkweather or Predator had gotten away with in the past Taylor isn't even on the scale. A more modern example would be Rep, he came here and in the space of a month pissed off more people then Taylor did in his entire career but yet he has absolutely no sanctions imposed on him because A) He didn't argue with a mod and B) There's double-standards going on and C) He's friends with the world champion. We let Rep back in and he's doing some of the best work I've ever seen from him which is good for the fed and it's community, but it seems retarded that we hold up this punishment when the only reason he's still punished is because he argued with the man that kept this fed alive for about 18 months. The problem with this arguement for me is that it opens up a different can of worms, and would suggest to me that perhaps others should be punished more harshly. It doesn't logically follow that Taylor's should be reduced....If what you've said is true, and others acted far worse, it could be argued their punishments should be worse than Taylors. That's another argument for another thread. The point still stands that if people have done worse then Taylor and gotten away scott free, why should Taylor be punished?
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Jason Freeman
Competition Judge
Long Island Iced Free
Posts: 3,271
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 11:54:33 GMT -5
Post by Jason Freeman on May 3, 2009 11:54:33 GMT -5
Yeah, exactly.
Now, most other people have said my arguments already but I'll say it anyways, just because it'd be a waste after I bugged Senator about it last night for like a half hour XD
I find it surprising that never in my almost three years of being here have I seen somebody besides Taylor banned, and yet I have seen many many FAR worse things said than Taylor has ever said. Compared to (as they said) the things that Stark would say on a regular basis, this is nothing. The difference is that Taylor usually was half-joking and said things that weren't really that offensive, where Stark said things that WERE offensive, and was dead serious. He got no punishment whatsoever. Look at Rep now. How can you even COMPARE them? Rep made every topic he was in into a flame topic, never contributing anything, insulting many many people, and flaming the whole fed (WITHOUT writing at the time at ALL I might add). And yet here he is.
Why is Taylor different? Sure, Taylor said a couple things he shouldn't have, but overall he said nothing worse than what popped out of Stark's mouth all the time, the things Rep said, etc etc. Now, the only difference is that Taylor got on BK's bad side, and offended him directly. Now, I understand you shouldn't be messing with the mods and all that, but this isn't Soviet Russia...getting on BK's bad side should not be grounds for being shot <_<
I do think that if Taylor had just said the same things he said to other members, he would have still been here. I don't really find it fair that he's getting his character banned because BK holds a grudge.
In any case...whatever he said or didn't say...he's proved that he can be a valuable asset to the fed. He has completely changed OOC, and has had no problems in so long, that it seems strange to still punish him. After all, what's the point now? What is he still being punished for? And I DID find it suspect that he never made it to upper mid, but hey, maybe it's just a coincedence.
The point is, that BK clearly does still hold a grudge, and I can't think of any reason why Taylor shouldn't be let to have his charcacter back.
Also, this is an EFED. TO HAVE FUN. People need to loosen up and stop taking things quite so seriously.
He's MORE than redeemed himself, not that I think he really deserved a BAN in the first place.
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 11:55:02 GMT -5
Post by rosslambert on May 3, 2009 11:55:02 GMT -5
You owe me big for this. I've had to argue with three of my favourite posters on this board. EDIT: And... *shudder shudder* agree with *shudder shudder* Freeman.
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 13:34:04 GMT -5
Post by Kim Jong CP on May 3, 2009 13:34:04 GMT -5
I know Taylor didn't want me to step into this but I think there's a point everyone here is missing. The argument I've been hearing is the only reason Taylor is banned is becuase he pissed off BK where as others didn't. I would then like to turn everyone's attention to this thread (becuase I can't quote it for some reason.) alphacw.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=suggestions&action=display&thread=10340&page=2If you look at what BK said, he came right out and said, "I refuse to allow myself to come to terms with someone who attempted to embarass me publicy a few times and who said that the mods we're basically corrupt. I can't like someone, who after being banned - decided to pull a static IP thing and return to this fed - without officially being brought back, and then lie to my face about it after knowing it was him two days after he signed up." This in my opinion should hace told Taylor that any efforts of extending an Olive branch towards BK were futile. I'll give him credit for trying, but to say BK has never given him anything in a sense is wrong because he came flat out and told him what his situation was. Furthermore if we continue down BK's post, "Nonetheless, the mods have come to a decision considering the future of Jon Taylor. While during his first stay in ACW he proved to be unbearable to most of the roster, due to the massive public support from the people - Taylor will be allowed back into ACW. However, he is allowed back under what we can only call "eternal probation". One more slip up from Jon Taylor, and he will be banned from ACW and will never be brought back to the fed. But there's also something else that us mods will agree on. We banned Taylor before, and it was for a good reason - so something at least has to stick. Therefore, Taylor will NOT be able to use the character "Jon Taylor" for the remainder of his period here. The character "Jon Taylor" is banned permanently. It is in this regard that I feel that argument of him pissing BK off is a moot point. Correct me if I am wrong but BK is not the only mod. Jonny, AK, Senator and I'm presuming one more had votes in this process. If the rest of the mods felt that Taylor should be allowed back, that option would have won by 3-1, even if we only had 4 mod's vote (and once again correct me if I'm wrong here) A vote of 2-2 should not have carried the motion of a Taylor ban (correct me if I'm wrong but I've always thought there needed to be a majority to pass a motion). If this is the case, then at least 2 mods aside from BK felt that Taylor should be banned completely. I don't know time time heals all wounds, I was IP banned from PWF after making some critical comments about their world champion, (as well as an image in my signature TK would have loved but apparently it wasn't suitable for small children.) and am know allowed to peruse the forums and have been given mass public support to return. I also however was banned from another fed and I have not spoken to many of the guys in that fed in almost a year. That's my two cents on the issue. (Also, why was I not allowed to say anything but Dave was >_>)
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 13:38:59 GMT -5
Post by El Shadowo on May 3, 2009 13:38:59 GMT -5
Because me > you
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 13:39:43 GMT -5
Post by Dan White on May 3, 2009 13:39:43 GMT -5
You guys are taking this way too seriously with your walls of text and stuff. I'm not reading the argument cos I'm in a bad mood, but if he's started to be the Taylor he was yesterday, ban the hell out of him. If not, give him his character back.
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 13:41:56 GMT -5
Post by bryce on May 3, 2009 13:41:56 GMT -5
Because I like Dave. Lol kidding. But still BK has always been the one that dealt with everything, maybe if it was one of the others that provided a response/explanation then I would have accepted it more quickly. Still, everything I said still stands...
Lol @ Dan xD.
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Jake Steele
Competition Judge
Nosepass, Pass Pass Pass
Posts: 3,230
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 14:10:59 GMT -5
Post by Jake Steele on May 3, 2009 14:10:59 GMT -5
To offer the opposing argument: I can understand that you want YOUR character back. I really do, I've played a lot of characters in the 5 years of e-fedding I've had and sometimes you just click with some over others. On to BK, everyone on the internet feels like being a moderator must automatically make you impartial to everything. It's a created title to a created board that's based on a created federation. Fact is, there is no REAL rulebook for how a moderator should act, just their own discretion. Sure they act with responsibility, but the fact is that if you piss someone off they don't have to play nice with you because they're human and that's the human condition. Fact is, Josh, if you had gone out of your way to piss off me like you did BK, you could offer to pay off my student loans and I'd still tell you to fuck off. The fact that you're still on the board is tribute to BK's willingness to hear you out. Also, constantly whining about it doesn't look good for your case either. Instead, I would've talked to Spade or AK or any mod BUT BK if you were serious about this. BK isn't the only mod and if you pleaded a convincing case to any of the other mods it could go a lot further than you, Freeman, and everyone else taking up a topic that is supposed to be used to help newer people to fed get used to the place. Do you know how bad it would make ACW look if we had people openly arguing in a topic instead of taking it to the PMs or the mods? I can respect that you were trying to keep the discussion in one post, but it was the wrong post to do it in. I think everyone involved with that owe Senator and apology for misusing that topic. This place dies if there isn't an influx of new members because we all eventually have to move on or take breaks. The last place people want to join is a place where its members openly air out their dirty laundry instead of doing their business out of the public eye. So, I recommend taking this whole ordeal up with the mods and seeing what will happen down that avenue before taking your case to the boards. The only argument in this thread that even makes sense.
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 14:27:24 GMT -5
Post by rep on May 3, 2009 14:27:24 GMT -5
I don't necessarily understand why Freeman or anyone else seems to think that it's logical to compare negative attitudes. It's like comparing 9/11 to Pearl Harbor. A negative act is a negative act.
I didn't necessarily go unpunished in ACW... I was banned for many months and was only allowed back when I expressed to BK that I realized what I had done was wrong and that I fully understand the situation. I'm not sure that Taylor has done that, but it sure doesn't help that he isn't handling the entire situation very maturely. I went to BK in private and asked him, he still had to think about it for about a week, and I understand why. I didn't come on to the board under a new account and turn every topic in to a begging match. A little maturity goes a long way, regardless of how immature you are socially (I'm one of the most immature people I know) if you handle yourself maturely when it matters, there shouldn't be a problem.
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 14:36:45 GMT -5
Post by El Shadowo on May 3, 2009 14:36:45 GMT -5
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 14:37:43 GMT -5
Post by rosslambert on May 3, 2009 14:37:43 GMT -5
To offer the opposing argument: I can understand that you want YOUR character back. I really do, I've played a lot of characters in the 5 years of e-fedding I've had and sometimes you just click with some over others. On to BK, everyone on the internet feels like being a moderator must automatically make you impartial to everything. It's a created title to a created board that's based on a created federation. Fact is, there is no REAL rulebook for how a moderator should act, just their own discretion. Sure they act with responsibility, but the fact is that if you piss someone off they don't have to play nice with you because they're human and that's the human condition. Fact is, Josh, if you had gone out of your way to piss off me like you did BK, you could offer to pay off my student loans and I'd still tell you to fuck off. The fact that you're still on the board is tribute to BK's willingness to hear you out. Also, constantly whining about it doesn't look good for your case either. Instead, I would've talked to Spade or AK or any mod BUT BK if you were serious about this. BK isn't the only mod and if you pleaded a convincing case to any of the other mods it could go a lot further than you, Freeman, and everyone else taking up a topic that is supposed to be used to help newer people to fed get used to the place. Do you know how bad it would make ACW look if we had people openly arguing in a topic instead of taking it to the PMs or the mods? I can respect that you were trying to keep the discussion in one post, but it was the wrong post to do it in. I think everyone involved with that owe Senator and apology for misusing that topic. This place dies if there isn't an influx of new members because we all eventually have to move on or take breaks. The last place people want to join is a place where its members openly air out their dirty laundry instead of doing their business out of the public eye. So, I recommend taking this whole ordeal up with the mods and seeing what will happen down that avenue before taking your case to the boards. The only argument in this thread that even makes sense. LOL no. It doesn't say why giving Taylor his character is a bad thing, it just says he should have tried to do it differently. Quit nut-hugging anyone that's been here longer then you.
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 14:39:30 GMT -5
Post by rep on May 3, 2009 14:39:30 GMT -5
Watch your mouth Mainer. This man makes a World Title career out of it.
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 14:40:50 GMT -5
Post by bryce on May 3, 2009 14:40:50 GMT -5
You know I didn't mean it like that, Dave. And Rep you didn't see what I posted when I revealed myself as Bryce. I expressed my deepest apologies for the way I acted. I'm not going to say it again, everyone knows I have tried to apologise countless times, BK just doesn't want to try and meet any middle ground...
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 14:44:03 GMT -5
Post by rep on May 3, 2009 14:44:03 GMT -5
So you posted an apology... unless you went to BK privately, what you did isn't what I did.
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Ok, so
May 3, 2009 14:46:38 GMT -5
Post by rosslambert on May 3, 2009 14:46:38 GMT -5
Watch your mouth Mainer. This man makes a World Title career out of it.
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