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Post by Dan White on Dec 1, 2014 22:29:13 GMT -5
Heh, that whole period was just messed up for me. I'd got so convinced that I had won FH that when I lost I pretty much lost all the motivation I had. Then I tried to pick it up, and Zero, Flamengo and RDK all let me down, so I feuded with Hitman, who then decided to not continue our feud beyond OE like promised.
I can't even remember much of OEV. The entire card was probably the most underwhelming of all the OE cards from the proper era (pre-reboot). If I remember it was just full of NPCs, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but removes a lot of the purpose of e-fedding being competitive.
It's been said before but that event was the end of ACW by far. I do wonder what would have happened though had Steele dropped the belt to you. Would the exodus that happened happen? Would the fed have lasted with a stronger roster for a little bit longer? Would Rep have been able to strangle the last little bits of life we had following OEgate? We'd probably still be dead, but it may have been prolonged a little, and AK might still be talking to us.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Dec 1, 2014 22:47:42 GMT -5
Heh, that whole period was just messed up for me. I'd got so convinced that I had won FH that when I lost I pretty much lost all the motivation I had. Then I tried to pick it up, and Zero, Flamengo and RDK all let me down, so I feuded with Hitman, who then decided to not continue our feud beyond OE like promised. I can't even remember much of OEV. The entire card was probably the most underwhelming of all the OE cards from the proper era (pre-reboot). If I remember it was just full of NPCs, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but removes a lot of the purpose of e-fedding being competitive. It's been said before but that event was the end of ACW by far. I do wonder what would have happened though had Steele dropped the belt to you. Would the exodus that happened happen? Would the fed have lasted with a stronger roster for a little bit longer? Would Rep have been able to strangle the last little bits of life we had following OEgate? We'd probably still be dead, but it may have been prolonged a little, and AK might still be talking to us. As much as I would like to believe that I could have miraculously helped extend life into this place by winning the title, I think what was happening out of character took a bigger toll than I did. I think we could have squeezed one year out if there was not daily OOC fights, many of which got too personal. Those things caused those barely hanging on, like AK, to leave. No doubt in my mind. I can say that the first main event out of the gates (Senator Vs. Freeman) was not the right direction for morale as I had even the loyalist ACW people messaging me with their frustrations about it. What I would love to know is how things would have gone if I didn't get frustrated with SLA, turned it into a traditional promo fed and competed heavily with ACW. I think this would have actually helped ACW by creating a real life WCW vS WWF scenario that would have given people the motivation to pick a side and write. Alas thought, it never happened as I was already tired of sinking a ton of time into it and not seeing my roster expand because new people did not like the ACW system.
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Post by Dan White on Dec 1, 2014 23:31:07 GMT -5
Heh, that whole period was just messed up for me. I'd got so convinced that I had won FH that when I lost I pretty much lost all the motivation I had. Then I tried to pick it up, and Zero, Flamengo and RDK all let me down, so I feuded with Hitman, who then decided to not continue our feud beyond OE like promised. I can't even remember much of OEV. The entire card was probably the most underwhelming of all the OE cards from the proper era (pre-reboot). If I remember it was just full of NPCs, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but removes a lot of the purpose of e-fedding being competitive. It's been said before but that event was the end of ACW by far. I do wonder what would have happened though had Steele dropped the belt to you. Would the exodus that happened happen? Would the fed have lasted with a stronger roster for a little bit longer? Would Rep have been able to strangle the last little bits of life we had following OEgate? We'd probably still be dead, but it may have been prolonged a little, and AK might still be talking to us. As much as I would like to believe that I could have miraculously helped extend life into this place by winning the title, I think what was happening out of character took a bigger toll than I did. I think we could have squeezed one year out if there was not daily OOC fights, many of which got too personal. Those things caused those barely hanging on, like AK, to leave. No doubt in my mind. I can say that the first main event out of the gates (Senator Vs. Freeman) was not the right direction for morale as I had even the loyalist ACW people messaging me with their frustrations about it. What I would love to know is how things would have gone if I didn't get frustrated with SLA, turned it into a traditional promo fed and competed heavily with ACW. I think this would have actually helped ACW by creating a real life WCW vS WWF scenario that would have given people the motivation to pick a side and write. Alas thought, it never happened as I was already tired of sinking a ton of time into it and not seeing my roster expand because new people did not like the ACW system. Yeah, the OOC was poisonous back then and I consider it one of the biggest factors in the reason we eventually died. I agree with the ACW system no working for some people either. You managed to get a decent chunk of new people for your SLA fed who came over when you closed it down, and I don't think we kept a single one. Hell, from OEV to the end I think we only managed to get like four new people in that stayed somewhat consistent over that time (Criminal, TJ, Scorpion and a girl, or at least a female character, whose name I don't recall). I think amongst other things, ACW's life support and inflow of people relied on the popularity of e-feds on Gamefaqs. It's where everyone came from when we started, it's where we got our kickstart after GFW shut down, and once those places had been tapped up of talent it was pretty much downhill from there, because we couldn't keep everyone forever (again, something you said, that people grow up and find they either can't e-fed anymore or don't want to e-fed anymore). It sucked because the SLA thing could have worked. I seem to remember we even tried to start some sort of in-house warfare/Civil War, or at least had initial plans to do it, but obviously it never took off because of reasons mentioned. Ifs and buts and maybes will always come up but what happened happened. One thing I will say though is considering what the roster pool was like following OEV, Freeman getting a main event match isn't the strangest thing that's happened, nor the most unfair, I don't think. Fact is he was a hard worker and deserved his title shot eventually. I liken it to me getting title shots in late 2005 on PPV, when privately I bet a lot of people didn't really think I had the talent to do so (I probably didn't, but (and this opens another can of worms!), being friends with the right people meant that the chances were there for me to take them). In my archiving I'm at the stage just after Ragnarok 2006, where we began to build a roster so big we regularly had ten matches per show, on two shows a week, with Fallout also being posted every week and becoming extremely popular when Yoko took over from me. I know I'm talking about a time over eight years ago but I remember, quite naively I guess, thinking that the place would never die after that.
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Jason Freeman
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Post by Jason Freeman on Dec 2, 2014 0:51:14 GMT -5
Can you elaborate? I have ideas about what happened but I don't want to stir the pot. Not that it matters now, 6.5 years on and all that. Anyway the whole Wyvern thing was weird to me. I was inactive (apart from my "onscreen" Commissioner role) and I didn't really pay too much attention to the politics or anything. But I do remember that he did not deserve to retain against Snake at all. I don't think it was any mod conspiracy though. Just Wyvern knowing how to play the flawed game that the calcs had become and exploiting it to suit his needs. Don't even know if he dropped the belt to Stark or whether he just didn't turn up, but I didn't find it a surprise, to be fair. Hunter at Winter Discontent 2007, now that was a conspiracy of sorts. Zero completely deserved to have the title then. I don't remember what happened at Winter's Discontent 2007 but BK vs Zero at Winter's Discontent 2008 to me is one of the most memorable ACW title wins, and so I'm happy he got it when he did. I LOVED Zero's title run and Commissioner Zero thing. I can't remember if those overlapped but I think they did. That was one of my favorite runs anybody ever had in ACW.
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Jason Freeman
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Post by Jason Freeman on Dec 2, 2014 0:59:02 GMT -5
Heh, that whole period was just messed up for me. I'd got so convinced that I had won FH that when I lost I pretty much lost all the motivation I had. Then I tried to pick it up, and Zero, Flamengo and RDK all let me down, so I feuded with Hitman, who then decided to not continue our feud beyond OE like promised. I can't even remember much of OEV. The entire card was probably the most underwhelming of all the OE cards from the proper era (pre-reboot). If I remember it was just full of NPCs, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but removes a lot of the purpose of e-fedding being competitive. It's been said before but that event was the end of ACW by far. I do wonder what would have happened though had Steele dropped the belt to you. Would the exodus that happened happen? Would the fed have lasted with a stronger roster for a little bit longer? Would Rep have been able to strangle the last little bits of life we had following OEgate? We'd probably still be dead, but it may have been prolonged a little, and AK might still be talking to us. Can anybody re-sum up the OE5 situation? I already forgot what happened. OEV was a personal highlight for me, I loved my feud with AK and I really think the match I wrote was awesome. I remember in the feedback CP said it was possibly the best match he ever read so naturally he assumed AK wrote most of it but all she wrote was the very last post. If you guys ever wanna read some classic matches read that one I did a good job on it <_<.
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Post by Mark on Dec 2, 2014 1:31:26 GMT -5
I'd like to give my apologies to Dan for peacing out on him after OE5. Fact is, by the time July '09 rolled around, I was frustrated with where I was at and just lost passion for fedding day by day. The fact that I had college coming up meant I knew I wouldn't be able to commit 100% to it. I should have stayed away after that - the Run Away and XS3 return #459321 didn't exactly work out either. I'd also like to apologize to TK. I should have put you over during that one match we had on Fallout, because in hindsight I ultimately had nothing to gain from doing so. Also, sorry Torak. >_>
And that Hunter/Winter's Discontent thing was bullshit from the start. I was so pissed when he deliberately dodged Zero. You could tell when he wrote that mid-month title defense against Silencio (I think?) that the whole thing was a joke. And don't get me started on that Best PPV Ever shit.
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Jason Freeman
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Post by Jason Freeman on Dec 2, 2014 1:44:25 GMT -5
Heh, that whole period was just messed up for me. I'd got so convinced that I had won FH that when I lost I pretty much lost all the motivation I had. Then I tried to pick it up, and Zero, Flamengo and RDK all let me down, so I feuded with Hitman, who then decided to not continue our feud beyond OE like promised. I can't even remember much of OEV. The entire card was probably the most underwhelming of all the OE cards from the proper era (pre-reboot). If I remember it was just full of NPCs, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but removes a lot of the purpose of e-fedding being competitive. It's been said before but that event was the end of ACW by far. I do wonder what would have happened though had Steele dropped the belt to you. Would the exodus that happened happen? Would the fed have lasted with a stronger roster for a little bit longer? Would Rep have been able to strangle the last little bits of life we had following OEgate? We'd probably still be dead, but it may have been prolonged a little, and AK might still be talking to us. As much as I would like to believe that I could have miraculously helped extend life into this place by winning the title, I think what was happening out of character took a bigger toll than I did. I think we could have squeezed one year out if there was not daily OOC fights, many of which got too personal. Those things caused those barely hanging on, like AK, to leave. No doubt in my mind. I can say that the first main event out of the gates (Senator Vs. Freeman) was not the right direction for morale as I had even the loyalist ACW people messaging me with their frustrations about it. What I would love to know is how things would have gone if I didn't get frustrated with SLA, turned it into a traditional promo fed and competed heavily with ACW. I think this would have actually helped ACW by creating a real life WCW vS WWF scenario that would have given people the motivation to pick a side and write. Alas thought, it never happened as I was already tired of sinking a ton of time into it and not seeing my roster expand because new people did not like the ACW system. Why were people complaining about me having a title shot? I don't really think that's fair. On the road to OE5 I was writing some really awesome stuff with AK. The highlight being the contract segment we wrote which a couple people, Dan, Senator, CP, said was the best thing I'd ever written. The truth was while consistency was always my biggest problem, I had been constantly improving and especially since rebooting my character in late 2008. I do think the best of the stuff I did with AK was main event quality, and while I was not always at that level I was getting there. I don't think everybody was paying attention to what I was doing at the time, but those who were all were giving me praise. After OE5 I had a lot of momentum, and the history was there with me and Senator to make for an interesting feud. Yes, I was friends with Senator, but he would not have given me the match if I didn't deserve it. He gave it to me because he saw I was writing the best stuff I ever had, and he thought I deserved a shot. Was I ready for the ACW title? Probably not, but I don't see a problem with me getting a title match. I had like what...two ACW title matches ever? The second one being when I won it from Mainer when I was pretty much the only one left lol. Why ACW loyalists would complain about it I don't know. I do think I deserved the shot, even if I wasn't going to win, just to get a chance to mix it up in the main event scene. It's interesting and maybe we disagree in principle. I was reading some old posts and saw you complaining about BK London feuding with Scott Andrews and Kudo Yasuda in his last championship run, when I absolutely loved those feuds, because it gave Scott and Kudo a chance to mix it up and made them look great. And then eventually Jay Zero. I don't see a problem with giving some ACW title shots to people that are on the boundary of main event and giving them a chance. And as I said I think I was writing impressive things at that time, and that it isn't really fair to say that that was wrong to give me a shot or would frustrate people. Its a shame, I continued to improve after that as well. The stuff I wrote in ACW's final year was by far my best stuff ever but there was nobody around to see it. The run up to my ACW title win in July from Fallen Heroes of that year was a great angle in my opinion, which led naturally to the title match and which Im really proud of. I think there was tons of potential for interesting stories with my character at the time. Would I have been able to hang in the main event? I don't know and never will, I just know I was re-reading some of it last week and I think a lot of that stuff was really great.
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Jason Freeman
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Post by Jason Freeman on Dec 2, 2014 1:48:38 GMT -5
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Torak
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Post by Torak on Dec 2, 2014 3:53:03 GMT -5
I'm loving this ACW history lesson. I'd love to know more about what went down after I left for the final time. I could tell then that the place was on it's last legs and I was surprised at how long it lasted after that. It's a shame that it seems the community broke down here more than anything else, as I remember it being quite tight here, especially during my 2nd stint (Which is where I probably peaked as well).
I think what happened to Dan happened to me as well, as I had become convinced that Torak was going to win Fallen Heroes, especially when Torak went from #1 to the end. But it just seemed to be the same faces in power always hogging the limelight. I think that de-motivated me more than anything else.
Also, can anybody explain to me how the calcs were worked out exactly? I think I became a victim of them towards the end of all three of my stints and had I known roughly how they worked, I probably could have played this game more wisely. Not abuse it, but manage my time to spread the burden of writing. Very often I'd spent so much on the first few shows of the month that I'd end up burning out or falling behind on other projects that I'd miss a show or two at vital times. I remember one monster run that Torak was on but I no-showed once and lost 2 or 3 matches in a row, effectively killing off the whole Torak as an unstoppable beast angle. You learn to shape your story/character around the results, but it started making it impossible for me to build Torak up as that behemoth when I was losing matches all the time.
Finally, I noticed a comment that suggests AK left on bad terms. What happened there? Does/did anybody ever really get to know her personally?
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Post by BAWSE Train on Dec 2, 2014 11:41:20 GMT -5
I gotta say that my favorite feud here by far was with RDK. He had been gone for so long at that point and then to have him come back and work with me was pretty cool.
My biggest problem here was consistency and just being a 15 year old kid. I was immature with this which I think why Thunder Train worked so well, but if you go back and look at those promos, its just nonsense.
I often thought about coming back after I left (WHEN I SHOULD'VE BEAT DAN FOR THE TITLE. But inconstancy and the fact that I had been writing promos and matches for 4 years was just getting boring) but making Thunder Train a more serious character and a more traditional "wrestler" type of character. I just could never commit myself to do it.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Dec 2, 2014 18:38:10 GMT -5
I think what happened to Dan happened to me as well, as I had become convinced that Torak was going to win Fallen Heroes, especially when Torak went from #1 to the end. But it just seemed to be the same faces in power always hogging the limelight. I think that de-motivated me more than anything else. QFT. It also needs to be said from someone who experience more than just ACW, some of these same names would have been lower than midcarders in traditional federations but they knew the system and absolutely cashed in on it. I can tell you from what I have been told Torak, that besides your rank, number of promos that you did, and the quality, you were also given points for joint roleplays, which would explain why some of these people we speak of ONLY did joint roleplays. It also would explain why during important matches they would drop the max limit of roleplays - all joint of course - in the final calcs before outcomes were determined. Mark, I had no issues with that - that I remember. In fact, you and Chef Andy really helped make Thunderkiss with you guys allowing me to molest your fake women and cut off your hands. You were the best kids a random strange man who wrote about sniffing women's panties could call friends on the internet. Freeman, you have a point. I think you were writing well and probably did deserve at least a shot during that time. You just have to realize that your resume was so filled with all the hijinks that people didn't want to give you a chance. Unfair yes, but true. Hilariously I am pretty certain you are doing pretty well in life compared to the rest of us so you have the last laugh.
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Jason Freeman
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Post by Jason Freeman on Dec 2, 2014 19:25:00 GMT -5
Fallen Heroes was affected by your entrance order too, so if you started out as #1 that could have cost you.
Personally I liked the random entrance order counting for FH but to be fair it only ever benefited me who almost always got late numbers. I can see people not liking that random factor.
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Post by Mark on Dec 3, 2014 1:06:59 GMT -5
Mark, I had no issues with that - that I remember. In fact, you and Chef Andy really helped make Thunderkiss with you guys allowing me to molest your fake women and cut off your hands. You were the best kids a random strange man who wrote about sniffing women's panties could call friends on the internet.
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Post by Dan White on Dec 3, 2014 19:50:18 GMT -5
I think what happened to Dan happened to me as well, as I had become convinced that Torak was going to win Fallen Heroes, especially when Torak went from #1 to the end. But it just seemed to be the same faces in power always hogging the limelight. I think that de-motivated me more than anything else. QFT. It also needs to be said from someone who experience more than just ACW, some of these same names would have been lower than midcarders in traditional federations but they knew the system and absolutely cashed in on it. I can tell you from what I have been told Torak, that besides your rank, number of promos that you did, and the quality, you were also given points for joint roleplays, which would explain why some of these people we speak of ONLY did joint roleplays. It also would explain why during important matches they would drop the max limit of roleplays - all joint of course - in the final calcs before outcomes were determined. Mark, I had no issues with that - that I remember. In fact, you and Chef Andy really helped make Thunderkiss with you guys allowing me to molest your fake women and cut off your hands. You were the best kids a random strange man who wrote about sniffing women's panties could call friends on the internet. Freeman, you have a point. I think you were writing well and probably did deserve at least a shot during that time. You just have to realize that your resume was so filled with all the hijinks that people didn't want to give you a chance. Unfair yes, but true. Hilariously I am pretty certain you are doing pretty well in life compared to the rest of us so you have the last laugh. From about November 2008-Spring Into Hell 2009 or so I had a minimum of four segment credits per show, be it writing a match or doing a joint segment or whatever. Did I exploit the rules? Hell yeah, but I had to to stay up near the top. The calcs were based on rank, random, quality and quantity. Predictions also used to be a factor but were eventually dropped. If there was a draw the mods would then vote on who they thought should win, and if it was still a draw then it would go to a double countout or whatever. I believe the quantity calc spanned back the previous three shows or something, so yeah if you missed a show for the next couple of weeks onwards it could have a detrimental effect on your results, which in hindsight sucked but there you go. The random vote did give the potential for results not to be so obvious but while it gives some interesting results, throws could sometimes skew up legitimacy. However, something I really had an issue with was the quality rank. Not that it wasn't used as a major factor (it really should have been, as opposed to equal with rank and quantity), but the fact that the quality rank only got updated every month or so, and was literally a "people in rank 10:", "people in rank 9:" etc, which I didn't find to be right. Basically, if you were rank 8 and your opponent was rank 7, you were guaranteed to win that calc even if you submitted nothing but absolute crap the show earlier, so it was never based on that. I believe it used to be when Shawn/Rose's job was to double check segments, but when he left his role was never filled and it proved to be a problem for regular quality checks. I never really challenged the calc system when we were active but in hindsight, maybe there could have been a greater emphasis on quality. Then again, you could argue that some people who weren't the most talented could enjoy a moderately successful time here without having to lose every match, and making sure that anybody could come here and have fun, instead of trying to be the most serious and highest quality fed, was always our ethos. So it was a catch-22 situation. In regards to Fallen Heroes, you would get points for each calc. So the amount of credits on the previous three shows would be one point each (so if you did the full four per show, you'd have 12 points). Quality then was added in (your ranking on the board would be however many points you got, so if you were in the 8/10 category, you'd get 8 points). Finally, a "random" factor, based on the final six or seven in the FH, would be arranged, so one person would get 6 points (if it's out of a final six, for example), the next five, the next four etc. The person with the most points, wins, and having seen calcs from both 2009 and 2010 for FH (calcs haven't always been retained, there's literally about ten sets of results still there), I'm willing to bet every single FH match was decided on the random factor. I'm enjoying this little nostalgia chat we're having. Good to get some of our thoughts and opinions out in the open.
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Jason Freeman
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Post by Jason Freeman on Dec 4, 2014 1:49:08 GMT -5
QFT. It also needs to be said from someone who experience more than just ACW, some of these same names would have been lower than midcarders in traditional federations but they knew the system and absolutely cashed in on it. I can tell you from what I have been told Torak, that besides your rank, number of promos that you did, and the quality, you were also given points for joint roleplays, which would explain why some of these people we speak of ONLY did joint roleplays. It also would explain why during important matches they would drop the max limit of roleplays - all joint of course - in the final calcs before outcomes were determined. Mark, I had no issues with that - that I remember. In fact, you and Chef Andy really helped make Thunderkiss with you guys allowing me to molest your fake women and cut off your hands. You were the best kids a random strange man who wrote about sniffing women's panties could call friends on the internet. Freeman, you have a point. I think you were writing well and probably did deserve at least a shot during that time. You just have to realize that your resume was so filled with all the hijinks that people didn't want to give you a chance. Unfair yes, but true. Hilariously I am pretty certain you are doing pretty well in life compared to the rest of us so you have the last laugh. From about November 2008-Spring Into Hell 2009 or so I had a minimum of four segment credits per show, be it writing a match or doing a joint segment or whatever. Did I exploit the rules? Hell yeah, but I had to to stay up near the top. The calcs were based on rank, random, quality and quantity. Predictions also used to be a factor but were eventually dropped. If there was a draw the mods would then vote on who they thought should win, and if it was still a draw then it would go to a double countout or whatever. I believe the quantity calc spanned back the previous three shows or something, so yeah if you missed a show for the next couple of weeks onwards it could have a detrimental effect on your results, which in hindsight sucked but there you go. The random vote did give the potential for results not to be so obvious but while it gives some interesting results, throws could sometimes skew up legitimacy. However, something I really had an issue with was the quality rank. Not that it wasn't used as a major factor (it really should have been, as opposed to equal with rank and quantity), but the fact that the quality rank only got updated every month or so, and was literally a "people in rank 10:", "people in rank 9:" etc, which I didn't find to be right. Basically, if you were rank 8 and your opponent was rank 7, you were guaranteed to win that calc even if you submitted nothing but absolute crap the show earlier, so it was never based on that. I believe it used to be when Shawn/Rose's job was to double check segments, but when he left his role was never filled and it proved to be a problem for regular quality checks. I never really challenged the calc system when we were active but in hindsight, maybe there could have been a greater emphasis on quality. Then again, you could argue that some people who weren't the most talented could enjoy a moderately successful time here without having to lose every match, and making sure that anybody could come here and have fun, instead of trying to be the most serious and highest quality fed, was always our ethos. So it was a catch-22 situation. In regards to Fallen Heroes, you would get points for each calc. So the amount of credits on the previous three shows would be one point each (so if you did the full four per show, you'd have 12 points). Quality then was added in (your ranking on the board would be however many points you got, so if you were in the 8/10 category, you'd get 8 points). Finally, a "random" factor, based on the final six or seven in the FH, would be arranged, so one person would get 6 points (if it's out of a final six, for example), the next five, the next four etc. The person with the most points, wins, and having seen calcs from both 2009 and 2010 for FH (calcs haven't always been retained, there's literally about ten sets of results still there), I'm willing to bet every single FH match was decided on the random factor. I'm enjoying this little nostalgia chat we're having. Good to get some of our thoughts and opinions out in the open. I gotta say that the quality calcs seemed sorta shady to me too. I dont know who was updating them since it doesn't go back far enough, but it does seem weird to only update them like monthly or something. And there was also the fact that there were really only like 3 actual levels that everybody seemed to fall into from what I saw. I wonder who actually determined it? I dunno who took over after Wyvern. In general I kind of like the little bit of random factor being involved, but there is the fact that somebody could write 4 awful segments a show and have a 50/50 chance of winning when they're the same rank. In general though I like the random factor but I also am not a fan of the straight up promo feds where it's a total writing competition, so those that liked that style which is more of a quality battle would probably have more issues with the ACW system. I remember there being so much mystery in it at the time, I have to admit it was a little disappointing when I realized they were exactly what everybody already assumed they were.
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