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Post by Kim Jong CP on Jun 26, 2009 11:27:19 GMT -5
It meant that I didn't want to defend it mid month against say Jack Jefferson and lose it, because that would make that entire feud useless as the whole hype behind it was the fact that the winner would get an ET title shot at OEV
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Post by El Shadowo on Jun 26, 2009 11:30:01 GMT -5
I get where Chris is coming from there. I found myself in the same situation back when I was ET champ where Jefferson, Me and Spade had already planned out how the Empire would steal my title and spray paint it. In order to make sure that story wouldn't get ruined, I asked Bryce (Who was my midmonth title defence) if we could predetermine the match.
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Post by rosslambert on Jun 26, 2009 11:41:11 GMT -5
When me and Train had our two week feud fo SITH, we pre-determined our match result because I didn't want to lose any momentum going into The Crucible and Train wanted to hold onto the title so we went the TNA option and made it a DQ loss inside a cage. FUN FACT.
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Post by Alicia "Atomic" Kitsune on Jun 26, 2009 16:26:40 GMT -5
I said to the other mods that I’d probably post a brief response, so here it is. It’s had to wait a little as I’ve been working long hours this week and haven’t had any time to get on my PC at home until this evening, but the gap has at least given me time to reflect a little. I would like to echo the views here with regard to the calcs in general. It’s never been a static system and periodically over time we have made changes to try and make it fairer and less likely to produce a “rogue” result. Specifically as a result of this incident, we are putting in place measures to deal with the weaknesses relating to tiebreaks, as this clearly needs attention. What I would like to emphasise is that every mod takes their role in determining match results extremely seriously. We all know from personal experience how much time, effort and care goes into the work which makes up our shows. And we know that the results matter a great deal. But determining those results by necessity includes a large element of subjective judgement, and we all realise the responsibility which that puts on us as it does on all fed owners. Our calc system attempts to balance objective measures of members’ work against those subjective elements. In most cases, it works well and we get a clear result. However, where people are writing to their best, and particularly when the competition hits its highest level as it tends to around the big PPVs, draws are somewhat more likely to occur. When we get a tied match, essentially we do what any RP-based fed does. The mods go back and review work over a period of time. We make cases for all the competitors involved, both “for” and “against” so that we can look at what we particularly found effective and where any weaker segments etc cropped up. And then we each make a decision on who we think should win, giving our reasons in the process. Normally, because we have five mods, a “mod-lock” can’t occur. But on this occasion that’s precisely what happened, because Senator took great care not to become involved in the deliberations. It’s been extremely helpful to see peoples’ opinions on the best way to resolve this kind of situation. What I will say is that we know from experience that using a random factor to decide a key match is not satisfying for anyone involved, and this has caused friction in the past. We took the decision back to the people involved because our view was that it was better for them to be fully aware of what was going on, than for them to be kept in the dark, and for rumors to then circulate as to how the result was arrived at. I personally feel that it is essential that members are confident that we will give them at least some degree of say in what happens with their character, if a situation arises where the calc/mod system is not returning a transparent result. This is what we tried to do here. Our intention is of course to tweak things so that an identical situation doesn’t arise again, but it’s almost certain that at some point we will come across another unusual situation where we’ll have to think on our feet. I personally would stand by our “inclusive” approach in such a case, for the reasons I have given. I don’t feel that the situation with TK is one which needs to be picked over further. I only want to express my personal disappointment with the fact that, based on TK’s post on his board, his decision to leave was a result of issues which had been building for some time. If that was the case, I feel sad that he apparently didn’t feel able to raise it with myself or one of the other mods. I can’t say for sure whether we could have altered things significantly, but I want it to be absolutely clear that we would have taken any concerns seriously and done whatever possible to try and address them. For my own part, I know I’m not generally around on AIM or MSN – but if people need to talk, a simple PM is all that is needed, perhaps with a suggested time for me to contact them. I’ve used this method several times successfully in the past to assist with or clarify on issues of concern, and I hope that you would all realise that any discussions are in total confidence unless you request me to take an issue forward for general mod feedback. I am confident that my fellow mods can also be consulted in a similar manner. Like a lot of you, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading TK’s work in ACW and I am sad that this particular chapter is now over. Personally, I’ll always be a paid-up member of the Kiss Army. I’m sorry if the appreciation of his “fans” here isn’t enough to counter-balance the failings TK considers us to have, and we’ll continue working to try and improve on the experience we offer our members. Myself, I continue to be proud of ACW, and that’s entirely due to everyone reading this. I hope you’ll all continue to share your many talents with us for a long time to come.
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VorteX
Experienced Member
Stay a while...and listen.
Posts: 723
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Post by VorteX on Jun 26, 2009 16:45:47 GMT -5
Ok, Chris, that makes me feel better than when I initially read your response. Anyway, I have been angry at the calc system numerous times, some of which have caused me to depart from the fed. I came back because I realized it isn't all about wins and losses, and if I focused on those I would never be happy, as every time I was involved in something big (such as a title match) I would inevitably lose and become frustrated.
A big part of why I'm here now is to stem my creative writing abilities. I enjoy wrestling as well as writing, and ACW is supporting of that coupling, so it is a natural fit. For there's one thing I know and that's life isn't fair, so if one goes after a virtual piece of gold with too much effort they will inevitably be frustrated when they don't attain it.
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Post by rep on Jun 26, 2009 19:07:34 GMT -5
Not to take sides here, but Jake, you've done things like that before, even with me. You completely dropped an angle we had running to feud with The Contender. I told you before, that I thought our feud was only going to be on Brunch, which is why I set up The Contender feud. And plus, we were doing the original enemies as Tag Team Champs angle, and I didn't see Dave or Toast actually booking us against each other for the US Title, despite me and you hinting at it for months. Turns out I was right on the last part too, cause apparently Dave was priming me to drop the title and become World Champ there, and even if I had dropped to you, the non-Brunch build up to our match wouldn't have been done the way we wanted, unless we booked the entire thing ourselves. No offense to Dave, but you know the GWF system fucked a bunch of angles up. Toast actually was behind the Tag Titles thing... he put it on the show. You really can't be having two feuds going on at once, it's too much, especially when you don't even inform the person you were feuding with in the beginning.
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Jake Steele
Competition Judge
Nosepass, Pass Pass Pass
Posts: 3,230
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Post by Jake Steele on Jun 26, 2009 19:53:23 GMT -5
Actually he was never for the angle, Dave was. Toast started getting pissy towards me because Dave let me have creative control over my character and my storylines, while Toast wanted to write every dynamic of the show. He had a problem with The Contender angle too, mainly because he didn't write it.
And I always ran two angles at once, when we had Brunch and FNB. Because for a while, Brunch wasn't the bigger show, it was a side development show. It did blow up though, and I'll admit I should have updated you on the feud starting, but I had plans to have you be apart of it anyway whenever I was set to drop the title.
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Post by joshthejerseyboy on Jun 28, 2009 17:23:26 GMT -5
This topic is dead
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Post by Jonny Spade on Jun 28, 2009 21:07:42 GMT -5
Thanks for posting the obvious there.
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Post by Bre Dubs on Jul 2, 2009 6:43:34 GMT -5
well, i don't pay attention, but i'm just gonna throw out there, that in the case of a mod vote tie, the least experienced mods vote should be thrown out... makes sense to me
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Post by rosslambert on Jul 2, 2009 9:22:45 GMT -5
well, i don't pay attention, but i'm just gonna throw out there, that in the case of a mod vote tie, the least experienced mods vote should be thrown out... makes sense to me That's retarded.
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Post by rep on Jul 2, 2009 11:15:43 GMT -5
Why is that?
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Post by bryce on Jul 2, 2009 11:24:48 GMT -5
Because they're mods, isn't that supposed to be their job.
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Post by rep on Jul 2, 2009 11:40:40 GMT -5
I think this entire thing has been sensationalized for no demanding reason. Steele, Kiss and Senator could have discussed this and came up with a finish that would make for the best follow up story.
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Post by bryce on Jul 2, 2009 12:01:09 GMT -5
Unfortunately we ended with Freeman/Senator.
Kidding >_>! It appears that's what happened anyway so I don't see what the problem is anymore ;o
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